False account details - possible fraud?

[American Psycho]

I've seen increasing numbers of cases recently where people have been prosecuted for selling counterfeit goods online. In many cases the people have used the tactics many of us know to operate multiple accounts on marketplaces usually under false or inaccurate details. As a result they have also faced charges of fraud for using fraudulent information on the accounts.

Of course, on here the sale of counterfeit goods is not condoned in any way (unlike on aspkin's forum!). But what about the use of false or misleading details registering accounts when running multiple accounts?

Are we actually committing fraud or is there a defense for this? I'm not trying to scare people, but I know we would not condone any illegal activity on here so it's important we address the law on this.

[Modee]

Selling VERO is illegal. The VERO guide/ tech support protects you to the highest extent possible from the issues of having listings pulled, accounts suspended and getting sued for trademark and patent infringement. There is no sure fire prevention for being sued or criminally prosecuted,
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but if you follow the guide you will fly under the radar to the best extent possible. No one should sell VERO without getting my VERO guide. The potential penalties are simply too great.

As far as the other issue, if your intent in creating multiple accounts is to sell legitimate goods, no one I have ever heard of or can imagine has gotten in any criminal trouble for that. And even if you create multiple accounts to sell illegitimate goods, if you end up in trouble at all it will be for selling the goods, not for the relatively minor issue of creating multiple accounts, which let's face it, pretty much is considered just a violation of Ebay's rules.

[American Psycho]

Of course. I think the point I'm making is many people who have run into trouble with the law, have found that using false details helps the case the authorities have against them by showing their dishonest intent and are at risk of further charges of fraud.

Is what we are doing by using other details to create multiple accounts in fact illegal or is there a defence for this?

[Modee]

You're mixing and matching scenarios. In this context there is no issue I've ever been aware of or even heard of where creating multiple accounts has resulted in any such problems.

[American Psycho]

When the police want to obtain your bank records or paypal account history do they get a subpoena? Or is a subpoena for private entities, and is there another name for what the police need to get your private records?

[Modee]

Government may use subpoena or search warrant, the difference ties to what sort of proceedings are in motion, but the end result is about the same.

[Springsteen]

Fraud, period. This scenario is not VERO. This is about a goal , using counterfeit products, & deceiving customers into believing the product are genuine for financial gain? Fraud. Then knowingly sign contacts user agreements with false information the sole purpose? intent to commit crimes, Fraud.

I've seen increasing numbers of cases recently where people have been prosecuted for selling counterfeit goods online. In many cases the people have used the tactics many of us know to operate multiple accounts on marketplaces usually under false or inaccurate details. As a result they have also faced charges of fraud for using fraudulent information on the accounts.

Of course, on here the sale of counterfeit goods is not condoned in any way (unlike on aspkin's forum!). But what about the use of false or misleading details registering accounts when running multiple accounts?

Are we actually committing fraud or is there a defense for this? I'm not trying to scare people, but I know we would not condone any illegal activity on here so it's important we address the law on this.

[American Psycho]

Fraud, period. This scenario is not VERO. This is about a goal , using counterfeit products, & deceiving customers into believing the product are genuine for financial gain? Fraud. Then knowingly sign contacts user agreements with false information the sole purpose? intent to commit crimes, Fraud.

I agree it is fraud by legal definition. The point Modee is making is that you would not come to the attention of the authorities for this unless you were doing some other kind of illegal activity (such as selling counterfeits). True this may be, but this would undoubtedly be an aggravating factor if you got caught, and we have to remember it is strictly speaking still fraud in itself.

In my opinion you are much safer either using variations of your own name, or doing things in the name of a business. That way you'll always have a defense because you just can't predict what might happen. Who knows, someone could discover there's an account being operated in their name that they didn't know about, they cry fraud and you're looking at identity theft.

[Modee]

Right there are two separate issues (1) selling VERO, (2) creating an account under a false name. Unless you come under fire for (1) no government authority is going to care about (2) and even so, at worst evidence of (2) might be used to prove intent to defraud.

[Springsteen]

I've always sold handbags. Premier such as Louis Vuitton, Balenciaga, Chanel etc.authentic. My listings always included that I am not an employee of xyz, these are my personal handbags property.....I was fine. Then you have another side, the sellers that are selling authentic items however they sell Football Jerseys. VERO will pull those because of liscensing

[American Psycho]

Government may use subpoena or search warrant, the difference ties to what sort of proceedings are in motion, but the end result is about the same.

Will the bank inform you or are you able to find out if a subpoena or search warrant has been executed on your banking records? Or is the bank strictly forbidden from disclosing this to you?

[Modee]

When law enforcement is involved such as with a search warrant they have the option to request that the bank or whatever party is involved (ISP, etc.) NOT notify you, or DELAY notification, and when this option is exercised, the party always obeys. But with civil subpoenas the party subpoenaed will notify you.

[American Psycho]

When law enforcement is involved such as with a search warrant they have the option to request that the bank or whatever party is involved (ISP, etc.) NOT notify you, or DELAY notification, and when this option is exercised, the party always obeys. But with civil subpoenas the party subpoenaed will notify you.

Do law enforcement routinely request you are not notified or delayed notification?

[Modee]

Always.

...

[American Psycho]

When a subpoena is used by the authorities (NOT a search warrant) will you be informed of the existence of the request?