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Some people have considered or attempted to drain their PayPal accounts via transfers to a casino, and then withdraw the chips to themselves, by losing it to another player they have created in another account. Sounds ingenious in theory!
You would need to resort to something desperate like this only if you expect your PayPal to be shut down immediately, and need to get the cash out quickly, irreversibly.
First of all, know that no matter HOW you get the cash out of a PayPal account - via ACH transfer, PayPal plastic debit card, virtual debit card, XOOM, PayPal to PayPal transfer, mailing you a paper check, the scheme outlined below, whatever - if FUNDS are LEAVING your PayPal account, then the PP account is liable to get limited.
So in the first instance - just know that if the PP account is new, and too much money is leaving it quickly, it could become limited, especially if you have not created the account properly using my tech support methods. Tech support gives you insight into how much money you might be able to withdraw without triggering a limitation, and how to create the PayPal and EBAY accounts PROPERLY so that limitations do not happen.
Also keep in mind - that the amount of money coming INto a new PayPal account, especially if it has not been created using tech suport methods, can trigger a limitation even if you never withdraw a penny.
But back to the primary question: does it matter HOW I drain the funds? Will PayPal be less likely to limit my account if I remove the funds one way versus another? The answer is NO - if a limitation is triggered due to removing too much money quickly on a NEW account, then this is going to happen no matter how you remove the funds.
BUT THE OTHER QUESTION is - which of these methods for WITHDRAWAL is irreversible? First be aware that in cases of FRAUD (and PayPal, sadly, uses this word loosely), ANY transaction can be reversed. So if PayPal cries out fraud! (whether truly applicably or not), that payment is going to be reversed, whether done through credit card or ACH, or whatever.
Also, despite what you might think, just because a payment has landed at the other end does not mean it cannot still be reversed by PayPal. Take a look here, at the end of the first post, for a little insight into this:
http://www.modeeworld.com/forums/for...er-comparisons
SO - PayPal can reverse transfers
(1) while pending, before the money leaves their hands (or while in transit)
or
(2) even after they have landed at the other end.
You'll know if (1) has happened. You'll initiate a transfer and it will be reversed before the money even leaves your account. And usually, along with the reversal will come a PayPal account limitation to keep you from trying it again!
(2) can only be justified in cases of fraud, but sometimes PP claims fraud loosely. For example once about 2 1/2 years ago (before I understood the PP game as well as I do now), I transferred four figures on a by no means new PP account to my bank , and the funds landed. This was a PP I had used for EBAY for less than six months, but the PP account itself was many years old, which brings THIS to mind:
http://www.modeeworld.com/forums/for...tection-policy
I did not remove the funds from the bank quickly (I had no reason to be fearful, as all had been going well for so long, selling something like five figures each month), and the very next day, PP withdrew the funds, claiming fraud. I complained to the bank, on the basis that the withdrawal was an unauthorized ACH
(actually, I did have a feeling something was happening or about to happen, so immediately after making the withdrawal, I severed the ACH authorization between PP and my bank - so they should not have been allowed to withdraw any funds from my bank any longer), but the bank did nothing.
Understand the implication?
1. I transfer funds from PP to my bank via ACH
2. I cancel the ACH authorization - sever the legal link between PP and my bank
(which means that PP is no longer authorized to withdraw funds from my bank)
3. PP goes ahead and withdraws the funds I just ACHed in anyway, calling it a "reversal"
I complained to the Comptroller of Currency and the FTC, but PayPal lied and called the transaction a "reversal" and not an ACH withdrawal.
So bottom line being - that if PayPal wants to keep you from your money, they will lie and do whatever they think they need to, to keep you from it.
BUT there is a hierarchy of consideration on such transactions. Some are less likely to be "reversed" or "held up while pending." In order of which are MORE likely to be held up or reversed, to least:
1. PayPal to PayPal **
2. PayPal paper check
3. PayPal ACH to bank
4. Tricky instant transfers such as XOOM, CCNOW, to online casinos, etc.
Read this for more on XOOM which is a good example of issues that can arise when doing these sorts of transfers:
Now You Can Withdraw PayPal Money to Debit, Credit Cards - LiewCF Tech Blog
5. PayPal transfer to credit, debit or prepaid card:
There are many countries where this is possible (NOT in the U.S., Canada, UK or Australia however) - to withdraw funds to a credit card:
http://www.liewcf.com/archives/2007/10/now-you-can-withdraw-paypal-money-to-debit-credit-cards/
(note that the above article is from 2007 - so this is nothing new).
And you may check current status here using the pulldown menu, to see if this is allowed in your country:
PayPal Global | List of Countries and Currencies
The current list of countries where you may transfer your PP funds to a credit, debit, or prepaid card are: Argentina, Brazil, Bulgaria, Chile, Cyprus, Estonia, Gibraltar, Iceland, Indonesia, India, Israel, Italy, Latvia, Lichtenstein, Lithuania, Luxembourg, Malaysia, Malta, Philippines, Romania, San Marino, Slovakia, Slovenia, Turkey, UAE, and Uruguay.
6. PayPal debit card - Virtual (NOTE: Although some sources state that the PayPal plug in is currently not available
Card Reader | In-Store Debit & Credit Card Reader | PayPal US
)
On MY PayPal accounts, after logged in, I am give the option to obtain it.
Another option is to get a reloadable PayPal prepaid card
PayPal Prepaid Mastercard | PayPal Prepaid
and load it with the balance from your PayPal account.
7. PayPal debit card - Plastic
Note: if you use the PP debit card to withdraw funds via an ATM, that is of course not going to be reversed (because the source of the funds is your own PP account! and there is no one at PP to go after to reverse the transaction except itself :-). But if you use the debit card to purchase goods, PP can still reverse the transaction if they claim FRAUD and then the merchant will come after you for payment.
** If the PayPals are linked in any way, then using your PayPal to buy something online, is the same as PP to PP. If the two PPs are completely unrelated - arm's length transactions - then PP to PP MIGHT fall in the same category as (5) or (6), BUT just keep in mind that PayPal is VERY suspicious of PP to PP transfers of ANY kind, especially if the dollar amount is substantial and one or both of the PP accounts is relatively new, and usually just assumes that they are transfers from your own PayPal to another PayPal of your own.
Note with (4) the chances of being held up are greater than being reversed. If such transactions happen in the first place, they are rarely reversed.
Back to the online casino transfer method (transferring your PP funds to a casino):
As far as direct transfer to a European casino, if the PP account is in the U.S., this sort of transaction is not allowed in the first place. Actually, PP's user agreement does not allow transfer directly to ANY online casino, period, no matter where the PP account is.
Also, most casinos themselves do not allow U.S. players, and none as far as I am aware allow direct payments from PayPal accounts.
Take a look here too:
http://www.modeeworld.com/forums/for...-online-casino
this does outline a scheme to get money from PayPal to online casino. I cannot comment on it, as I have never done this sort of thing. I can say that if you want to try this, you'll have to do the same sort of analysis I have done with PP --> XOOM I wrote about
http://www.modeeworld.com/forums/for...om-your-paypal
in order the evaluate whether it will work.
ALSO be sure to read this thread:
http://www.modeeworld.com/forums/for...pal-limitation
You may also consider transfer of PP to bitcoin, but although this sounds fancy and it is irreversible, it is just more of the same.
You would need to resort to something desperate like this only if you expect your PayPal to be shut down immediately, and need to get the cash out quickly, irreversibly.
First of all, know that no matter HOW you get the cash out of a PayPal account - via ACH transfer, PayPal plastic debit card, virtual debit card, XOOM, PayPal to PayPal transfer, mailing you a paper check, the scheme outlined below, whatever - if FUNDS are LEAVING your PayPal account, then the PP account is liable to get limited.
So in the first instance - just know that if the PP account is new, and too much money is leaving it quickly, it could become limited, especially if you have not created the account properly using my tech support methods. Tech support gives you insight into how much money you might be able to withdraw without triggering a limitation, and how to create the PayPal and EBAY accounts PROPERLY so that limitations do not happen.
Also keep in mind - that the amount of money coming INto a new PayPal account, especially if it has not been created using tech suport methods, can trigger a limitation even if you never withdraw a penny.
But back to the primary question: does it matter HOW I drain the funds? Will PayPal be less likely to limit my account if I remove the funds one way versus another? The answer is NO - if a limitation is triggered due to removing too much money quickly on a NEW account, then this is going to happen no matter how you remove the funds.
BUT THE OTHER QUESTION is - which of these methods for WITHDRAWAL is irreversible? First be aware that in cases of FRAUD (and PayPal, sadly, uses this word loosely), ANY transaction can be reversed. So if PayPal cries out fraud! (whether truly applicably or not), that payment is going to be reversed, whether done through credit card or ACH, or whatever.
Also, despite what you might think, just because a payment has landed at the other end does not mean it cannot still be reversed by PayPal. Take a look here, at the end of the first post, for a little insight into this:
http://www.modeeworld.com/forums/for...er-comparisons
SO - PayPal can reverse transfers
(1) while pending, before the money leaves their hands (or while in transit)
or
(2) even after they have landed at the other end.
You'll know if (1) has happened. You'll initiate a transfer and it will be reversed before the money even leaves your account. And usually, along with the reversal will come a PayPal account limitation to keep you from trying it again!
(2) can only be justified in cases of fraud, but sometimes PP claims fraud loosely. For example once about 2 1/2 years ago (before I understood the PP game as well as I do now), I transferred four figures on a by no means new PP account to my bank , and the funds landed. This was a PP I had used for EBAY for less than six months, but the PP account itself was many years old, which brings THIS to mind:
http://www.modeeworld.com/forums/for...tection-policy
I did not remove the funds from the bank quickly (I had no reason to be fearful, as all had been going well for so long, selling something like five figures each month), and the very next day, PP withdrew the funds, claiming fraud. I complained to the bank, on the basis that the withdrawal was an unauthorized ACH
(actually, I did have a feeling something was happening or about to happen, so immediately after making the withdrawal, I severed the ACH authorization between PP and my bank - so they should not have been allowed to withdraw any funds from my bank any longer), but the bank did nothing.
Understand the implication?
1. I transfer funds from PP to my bank via ACH
2. I cancel the ACH authorization - sever the legal link between PP and my bank
(which means that PP is no longer authorized to withdraw funds from my bank)
3. PP goes ahead and withdraws the funds I just ACHed in anyway, calling it a "reversal"
I complained to the Comptroller of Currency and the FTC, but PayPal lied and called the transaction a "reversal" and not an ACH withdrawal.
So bottom line being - that if PayPal wants to keep you from your money, they will lie and do whatever they think they need to, to keep you from it.
BUT there is a hierarchy of consideration on such transactions. Some are less likely to be "reversed" or "held up while pending." In order of which are MORE likely to be held up or reversed, to least:
1. PayPal to PayPal **
2. PayPal paper check
3. PayPal ACH to bank
4. Tricky instant transfers such as XOOM, CCNOW, to online casinos, etc.
Read this for more on XOOM which is a good example of issues that can arise when doing these sorts of transfers:
Now You Can Withdraw PayPal Money to Debit, Credit Cards - LiewCF Tech Blog
5. PayPal transfer to credit, debit or prepaid card:
There are many countries where this is possible (NOT in the U.S., Canada, UK or Australia however) - to withdraw funds to a credit card:
http://www.liewcf.com/archives/2007/10/now-you-can-withdraw-paypal-money-to-debit-credit-cards/
(note that the above article is from 2007 - so this is nothing new).
And you may check current status here using the pulldown menu, to see if this is allowed in your country:
PayPal Global | List of Countries and Currencies
The current list of countries where you may transfer your PP funds to a credit, debit, or prepaid card are: Argentina, Brazil, Bulgaria, Chile, Cyprus, Estonia, Gibraltar, Iceland, Indonesia, India, Israel, Italy, Latvia, Lichtenstein, Lithuania, Luxembourg, Malaysia, Malta, Philippines, Romania, San Marino, Slovakia, Slovenia, Turkey, UAE, and Uruguay.
6. PayPal debit card - Virtual (NOTE: Although some sources state that the PayPal plug in is currently not available
Card Reader | In-Store Debit & Credit Card Reader | PayPal US
)
On MY PayPal accounts, after logged in, I am give the option to obtain it.
Another option is to get a reloadable PayPal prepaid card
PayPal Prepaid Mastercard | PayPal Prepaid
and load it with the balance from your PayPal account.
7. PayPal debit card - Plastic
Note: if you use the PP debit card to withdraw funds via an ATM, that is of course not going to be reversed (because the source of the funds is your own PP account! and there is no one at PP to go after to reverse the transaction except itself :-). But if you use the debit card to purchase goods, PP can still reverse the transaction if they claim FRAUD and then the merchant will come after you for payment.
** If the PayPals are linked in any way, then using your PayPal to buy something online, is the same as PP to PP. If the two PPs are completely unrelated - arm's length transactions - then PP to PP MIGHT fall in the same category as (5) or (6), BUT just keep in mind that PayPal is VERY suspicious of PP to PP transfers of ANY kind, especially if the dollar amount is substantial and one or both of the PP accounts is relatively new, and usually just assumes that they are transfers from your own PayPal to another PayPal of your own.
Note with (4) the chances of being held up are greater than being reversed. If such transactions happen in the first place, they are rarely reversed.
Back to the online casino transfer method (transferring your PP funds to a casino):
As far as direct transfer to a European casino, if the PP account is in the U.S., this sort of transaction is not allowed in the first place. Actually, PP's user agreement does not allow transfer directly to ANY online casino, period, no matter where the PP account is.
Also, most casinos themselves do not allow U.S. players, and none as far as I am aware allow direct payments from PayPal accounts.
Take a look here too:
http://www.modeeworld.com/forums/for...-online-casino
this does outline a scheme to get money from PayPal to online casino. I cannot comment on it, as I have never done this sort of thing. I can say that if you want to try this, you'll have to do the same sort of analysis I have done with PP --> XOOM I wrote about
http://www.modeeworld.com/forums/for...om-your-paypal
in order the evaluate whether it will work.
ALSO be sure to read this thread:
http://www.modeeworld.com/forums/for...pal-limitation
You may also consider transfer of PP to bitcoin, but although this sounds fancy and it is irreversible, it is just more of the same.
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